Dialoguing with Doubters – Part 1 – Atheists

Once upon a time, I was an atheist. Not just an atheist who simply did not believe in God / a higher power / whatever you want to call it: I fell into the camp of “new atheist”. But what do I mean by “new atheist”?

The term first became popular within a few years of the terrorist attack on the World Trader Center on September 11, 2001 (or “09/11”, as many people refer to it). Books such as the “End of Faith” by Sam Harris, “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins, and “God is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens all sprung up around the same time and hit Western culture like a tropical storm. The philosophical kind, that is.

These and other books quickly became best sellers (I helped contribute to that by buying up anything that showed why believing in God / having a religion was no longer such a good idea). They were not only yet another sign that changes in Western society over the past 50 to 60 years have been influencing perspectives on religion, but also that a rapidly growing number of people were getting fed up with belief systems altogether. This spawned the rise of secularism, “new atheism”, agnosticism, and the now widely popular position of “spiritual but not religious”. In fact, when averaging the latest polls here in the U.S. on how people identify with belief, approximately 20% (~65 million people) do not subscribe to any religion / specific belief system.

In other words, a BIG topic to unpack, right? Which is why in this first part of the “Dialoguing with Doubters” series, I am going to focus less on covering the history of religion and social trends in Western society, and more about what is at the core of people’s doubts. Not that historical, sociological, anthropological perspectives are not valuable to the conversation – but the doubts covered in this entire series are based on questions that humans have been asking for at least the past few thousand years, and then some. Therefore, a counterpoint to studying cultural shifts in thought is that people are still people – – we all have a brain, a sense of wonder, a complex mix of emotions and behaviors, and a struggle with our existential purpose.

Think: How many times have you asked the questions, “What is my purpose in life?” Or “Is there a God?” Or “What happens after death?” You are certainly not alone in asking those questions. Study philosophy. Study the life of St. Augustine. Even if you are atheist, agnostic, or spiritual-but-not -religious: Just about every seeker and/or doubter can relate to St. Augustine. That is because his story mirrors the same struggles with belief that so many people today have.

That said, “new atheism” is, well, nothing “new”. What has made it seem new is it has become somewhat more socially acceptable in modern society – which has allowed the now well-known, outspoken atheists to go on a strong crusade against religion. What started out as a few key books in the early 2000’s has grown into a powerfully vocal movement. And with social media now being a staple in everyday life, atheists have had global, instantly impactful influences on their peers: mic drop memes that point out all the “ridiculous teachings in the Bible”; drawing on Enlightenment and post-Modernist philosophers who pretty much dropped kicked religion out of the universe; trolling posts that religious / spiritual people post; and fire hosing people with scientific facts that supposedly pulverize any shred of a supernatural being.

Ok, I did say that I am not going to dive too much into the cultural and social shifts with religious beliefs; therefore, let’s get into the core gripes that atheists have with theism – and specifically for this article, atheist issues with the God of Christian belief and the Bible. And though I could probably write an encyclopedia’s (or Wikipedia?) worth of material about atheist doubts and arguments about faith (especially Christian faith), I will cover the more core questions and arguments that atheists give.  These can be divided into three categories: The Moral Argument, The Scientific Argument, and The Biblical Scholarship Argument. Each section will include core arguments, how to answer them, and links to videos that explain the answers in much better detail.

Also, before we cover the three categories, here is something *crucial* to keep in mind when discussing Christian beliefs with atheists: Many, many – did I say *many* — atheists do their homework when it comes to investigating religious claims, the Bible, philosophy, science, and logic / reason. Also, many of the many are not shy about being confrontational or calling you out on weak answers. Not to say that anyone out there is the best apologist in the universe – but a solid grasp of apologetics can certainly help.

Ok, let’s cut out the fanciness of the word “apologetics” – basically, it means how you defend what you believe.  Some people may say that it is not necessary to be an apologist to be a believer. That has some truth to it. However, it IS necessary to understand well the basics of what you believe and be confident in those beliefs.

Speaking of which, also make sure your confidence is not based on “It’s just what I ‘feel’ in my heart”, or a sort of Pascal’s Wager approach of “Well, I would rather believe in God than risk going to Hell”. As someone who was a quite outspoken “new atheist” for over 10 years of my life, I can not stress enough how important it is not to oversimplify arguments when talking with atheists. Sure, you may not win most atheists over – or you may not win over any at all. But try not to let it be because your answer to everything is “God said so, so that’s all I need to know.” 

Yes, it may be all that *you* need to know – but a lot of atheists out there are sharp thinkers and quick-witted. Some have even read the Bible much more thoroughly and many more times than many Christians have.  That does not mean you have to be a Scripture ninja to defend your faith – just that it boils down to this: Always expect the unexpected. Further, do not make assumptions about what atheists do not know. Because, trust me, they know a lot!

Yet also keep in mind you do have the ability to answer seemingly tough or trick questions. Yes, Biblical scholars and well-studied apologists can be like master chess players and have Scripture wars for hours at a time. However, dialoguing with your everyday atheist usually does not require a Scripture showdown or going around and around (and around again!) of one-upping each other.

Dialoging should *never* be about winning or losing anyway. It is about educating and learning. It is about communicating effectively. It is about exploring a subject *together*, rather than just having a head-to-head match of “here is what I think versus here is what you think”. Ask questions. Show that you are genuinely interested in learning the other person’s perspective. If possible, Include the video links provided from each of the argument categories in this article. When discussing those links, start with “Here is a great resource that has helped other people deal with their doubts on (fill in the blank)”.

And lastly, do not be afraid to say, “Hmm..I don’t have a solid answer to that question. But I am sure I can get the answer for you.” Atheists, in general (and as interpersonal communication usually goes), will often measure the conversation by your honesty instead of whether you are a bona fide scholar. Most atheists care more about the thought you have put into your answers, and that you are just not looking for an easy way out of the conversation.

That includes the rather passive-aggressive digs that atheists hate, such as “I will pray for you.” Or “I hope you see the light someday”. Or “Well, whether you believe it or not, God loves you.” All that will do is reinforce their opinion that you are delusional and have a weak faith.  (Note: Yes, the easy answer to this is “Who cares what other people think?” Except that if you are planning on sharing your faith in any capacity, it means genuinely caring about the conversations you have and doing as much justice to them as possible.)

Now, let’s explore the three main categories of arguments when dialoging with atheists. (Another note: There are certainly other categories, as well as sub-categories of the ones in this article, but the three categories covered here address the more common doubts that atheists have).

The Moral Argument

Because many atheists are well-versed (pun sort of intended) in the Bible, they often cherry pick outwardly disturbing passages to prove that the Bible is morally atrocious. Here are some of their go-to questions / arguments:

“I am a good person, why do I need to believe in God to be good?”

“If God is good, why is there so much killing in the Bible?”

“Why is the God of the Old Testament different from the God of the New testament?”

“Why does God allow suffering and evil? Why didn’t he stop Hitler? Why does he allow rape and torture?”

“Isn’t morality a bit subjective and can change with the times?”

The video links below give more thorough answers to these questions – but here is a short answer: The Bible is the story of “us”. It is the account of God creating a family here on Earth, of how He has revealed himself to his family, of how He has been a parental figure in guiding us through our social and spiritual evolution. That although we believe the Bible is inspired by God through human authors, it is a deeply transparent telling of this rollercoaster ride we call life. Every moral issue we struggle with, the ways we exhibit behaviors and emotions (happiness, anger, jealousy, lust, physical and emotional insecurities) are covered in detail throughout the Bible.

It is as a professor of mine taught me years ago: “When you read the Bible, replace *every* character in every story with yourself.” That is, when you inject yourself into the stories, it is no longer so much about wars, plagues, and other tales of sheer misery – it is more about how we humans have turned ourselves inside and out, throughout the ages, to understand and follow our purpose. And in that purpose, we recognize we are fallible; we are complicated creatures who both love and harm each other; we have a consciousness that strives not only to understand our purpose, but to connect with someone that transcends Earthly life. Why do we have a need to love and care for each other? Why do we have such a strong passion for understanding morals?

Another answer is how to structure all reading of the Bible. Namely, that the whole story of the Bible IS the story of Christ’s sacrifice and resurrection for humanity’s fallibility. The common term, of course, is sin. But whichever word we use, the bottom line is we are *all* deeply flawed. And the entire Bible – both Old and New Testament – has story after story, poem after poem, prescription after prescription, line after line point to one single meaning: Salvation through Jesus Christ.  It’s as one of the videos below on morality mentions: “If you start with Christ as the focal point for reading and understanding the Bible, the rest of the Bible comes together underneath that and makes a whole lot more sense.”

Also, although this may sound like a standard Catholic Christian dig at Protestants, many of atheists’ objections to the Bible are rooted in what they consider fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible, or fundamentalist excuses for why the Bible appears to be a book about bloodthirsty barbarians. And the so the answer to questions such as, “Why would Moses command his troops to kill all the men and women in another tribe, but keep the virgin girls alive”, becomes, “Well, God’s ways are higher than ours”.  Wrong answer. And please, *never* use that answer. Instead, use the much better, more thorough answers in the videos provided.

What’s with the Old Testament God (Breaking in the Habit): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmo4sUsjTLI

Old testament God versus New Testament God (Ascension Presents): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtXAQzqVv5s

Violence in the Bible (Bishop Robert Barron): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A65Wfr2is0

Believing in a God that allows evil (Fr. Mike Schmiz): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdf5BIqIHI

The Problem of Violence in the Bible (Trent Horn): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPyjIMn5-yg

The Scientific Argument

“Evolution disproves Adam and Eve. Checkmate, Christians!”

“The flood never happened. How did Noah collect two of every possible species, etc.?”

“The Earth is 4.7 billion years old. Why did God wait so long to create humans? We know that humans evolved from a common ancestor to all primates, and that all species most likely grew out of sea life.”

“Who created God?”

Unless you and/or the atheist you are dialoging with truly work as a scientist, or if you are rather casual reader of science books and know enough about biology, chemistry, neuroscience, psychology, etc. to be dangerous, you and your atheist friend are probably not fully qualified to slam dunk science onto each other. It does not mean you cannot become even more educated in science, earn the appropriate degrees, or make a career change – however, there is no full substitute for someone who has performed hundreds of hours of scientific experiments and has volumes of peer-reviewed papers on their discipline. Thankfully, some of these same experts publish comprehensive books for casual readers and students – which also means plenty of ammunition for anyone who uses the scientific method to disprove the supernatural.

Except that none of the established sciences out there (excluding pseudo-sciences) were intended to explain the supernatural. Science, at its core, is about understanding the *natural* world and cosmos around us. It does not have a framework for testing supernatural claims. That is partly why discussing the supernatural is more a philosophical conversation than a scientific one. Yes, if God exists, then yes, He essentially created science. But that does not mean we will ever develop all the means to connect all scientific dots to a supernatural deity.  Nor is it critical to believing in God. We do not need science to understand God.

I will say that again: *We do not need science to understand God* Just as we do not need science to understand why we should love each other, our families, our children. Just as we do not need science to learn how to be thoughtful and charitable. And this is coming from someone with a pretty solid education in neuroscience. That does not mean you must take my word for it, or that I am the final authority on explaining brain function. But speaking of brain function, one key component that science cannot articulate very well is this: consciousness.

No, I do not mean the consciousness that new agers conflate with “energy fields” and other rather flawed ideas. I mean we know that brain chemistry does produce consciousness. Yet we do not know *why*. Nor do we know exactly *how*. Which means here we are as humans strutting around with some intrinsic need to be transcendentally connected to forces other than our biological wiring. It is a mystery. Some even refer to it as the soul. It is certainly a compelling case for what the soul represents. But then again, science stops where the supernatural starts. Well, until some extraordinary finding blows the roof off that, we remain with the mystery. And when we explore that mystery throughout the Bible, we have a compelling, non-scientific reason for believing in God.

“I believe in science” versus “I believe in God” (Ascension Presents): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJtSD_j7qw

About “Faith and Reason” (Pope John Paul II): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFjXUd6sj-s

Sufficient evidence for the existence of God? (Trent Horn): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngNvCOVe8e4

Science versus Faith? (Trent Horn): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bzHl0l_hKM

The Biblical Scholarship Argument

If the words “biblical scholarship” cause your knees to shake a little at first, then you are not alone. It may even conjure up images of distinguished looking, spectacle wearing professors who who live up in an ivory Tower, where only other Bible scholars are allowed to tread, as they flip through dusty textbooks and feverishly type on their laptops around candlelight, all while flexing their intellectual muscles in front of everyone else.

No, Biblical scholarship does not need to be just another high brow venture for people who look and speak the part. And Christians who are not experts in the Bible should not feel less significant because they cannot spout out Gospel passages in their original Greek, or give a one-hour lecture on Christian versus Gnostic versus Jewish movements within first and second century C.E. Just as you are not expected to be a mechanic because you drive a car, you do not have to be a Bible genius to understand basic arguments about theology. Even better, and thanks to the abundant wealth of resources on the Internet (and yes, which can be a double-edged sword), we can get answers to questions in a matter of seconds. Now, whether those are the right answers is a different story.

Which means it is important to learn the 101 of research: Check multiple sources, compare them with each other, test all sides to an argument, and draw your conclusions from well-vetted / credible information. That includes “testing” all the links I have provided in this article. As you will see many of the sources are fellow Catholic Christians, though I have also added Bart Erhman as a resource on a few topics: If you have watched anything even remotely related to Biblical scholarship, you have most likely seen the name “Bart Ehrman” somewhere along the way. And though some scholars disagree with Ehrman on certain subjects (scholars are no strangers to debates), Erhman is quite impartial overall – and he is agnostic.

Which leads to another important point to keep in mind: The links in this article are NOT the master guide, one-stop-shop for all things Biblical. The links are more of a primer and foundational point for dialoging with atheists on their more common objections: “There is no record of Hebrew slaves in Egypt!” Or “There is no evidence outside of the Bible that corroborates the Gospels!” Or “Aren’t the Gospels just a bunch of made-up stories”?  “What about forgeries being a common problem in the ancient world”?

Yes, those kinds of questions can be a bit intimidating. They can seem like atheist is ready to detonate a box of TNT, while you connect the wires from it to the Bible. Yet it does not have to be that nerve-wracking. Some atheists already have their mind up and ironically fall into their trap of cognitive dissonance. Other atheists may genuinely be interested in your answers. And still others may be skilled, amateur scholars, yet that does not mean their information is entirely correct. Which is why debates, in general, can be a bit subjective, and both sides often hold strong to their original arguments anyway. However, it is still important to have the debates. Why? Because it is still an opportunity to listen to and educate each other. It is still a chance to reach a breakthrough moment where both you and the other person agree.

In fact, it is usually a good idea to find common ground when discussing any discourse, including religion, Biblical scholarship, etc. After all, if you and your atheist friend can agree on some key points, it can help with exploring where you disagree.

Also, because much of the information you provide may be from a Catholic Christian perspective, that also means showing why we as Catholics take much more a of holistic approach to reading the Bible than what is usually perceived about Christians. Namely, we do not read the Bible with only a literal lens, or solely through an allegorical lens. We use the four senses– literal, allegorical, moral, and anagogical – as taught in the Catechism. And that right there is critical. Why? Because many atheist objections to Scripture are based on a purely literal interpretation, or on conversations with various Protestant denominations. (Once again, not meant to be a cheap shot – but if you delve deep into atheist arguments, they are often a knee-jerk reaction to Protestant interpretations of the Bible.)

I hope this information is at least a strong starting point for dialoging with atheists.

The Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt! There was never an “exodus” as described in the Bible! 

Isn’t it true there is no external evidence that corroborates the Gospels / that Christ was the Messiah?

Historicity of Jesus (Bart Ehrman) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSY0f9-ZBxI

Were the Gospel writers lying about Jesus (Trent Horn): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7umeSoEJY

Are the Gospels historically reliable (Trent Horn): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcRl5A9hnXM

Aren’t the Biblical patriarchs based on mythical characters?

(Jimmy Akin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV_Mk4smJXc

What about forgery being a discounted, yet rather common issue in ancient times? Isn’t the Bible just copies of translations of copies of copies of translations?

(Bart Ehrman): https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bart+ehrman+Septuagint

What is the Best Bible Translation (Dr. Andrew Swafford): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV_Mk4smJXc

Historical critical method / literary forms (Bishop Robert Barron): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha5flTRTZWY

Ways to Read the Bible (Fr. Mike Schmiz): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hb7nSL1gKU

Four senses in Scripture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceUdlufRKso